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Post by code on Dec 4, 2021 19:36:55 GMT
The discussion of the 2nd amendment is all about punctuation. A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRIMGED. There was no standing army then, there is now, as well as a hundred or so heavily armed government agencies. The whole point of the constitution was to limit government power. The militia and the people have always been separate. Note: Grandfather on my father's side of the family, direct lineage, my middle name is passed down from him, was both a Minute-Man and served in the Continental army. I would post up a pic of his tombstone, but then the place would become overrun with tourists.
So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country?
Thomas Jefferson thoughts on limiting arms:
"That to "bear" arms means simply to carry them was clear in a game bill
drafted by Thomas Jefferson and proposed by James Madison, draftsman of
the Second Amendment, in the Virginia legislature.' The bill would have
fined those who hunted deer out of season, and if within a year "[the hunter]
shall bear a gun out of his inclosed ground, unless whilst performing military
duty," he shall be in violation of his recognizance. The game violator would
have to go back to court for "every such bearing of a gun" to be again bound
to his good behavior.
Thus, in the minds of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, to "bear" a
gun meant to carry it about in one's hands or on one's person, as for instance
a deer hunter would do. "Bearing arms" is not associated with militia duty
only, for the language above addresses the "bearing of a gun" by any person
when not "performing military duty."
This suggests Jefferson thought states could impose restrictions on guns separate from the Federal Government, that states had rights not reserved by the Federal Government. (It seems that is an argument made by Mississippi in the ongoing abortion debate).
As to the militia being separate...
I thought the quote was serious and funny... Sure, he was saying everybody had a duty to the country but it also seems he was saying there were a few "important" individuals who didnt' engage in the duty .... I will let you insert your favorite politician's name.
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Post by Sigurdur on Dec 4, 2021 21:21:10 GMT
The main thing is, we have to look at what has changed. Firearms have been pretty much the same item for centuries. People, there has been an important change. Respect for life is what has changed. When you start wholesale killing babies because they are an "inconvenience", moral stature has been lost.
I would argue firearms have changed.
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Post by missouriboy on Dec 4, 2021 22:00:14 GMT
So ... a militia without arms is a rugby game? When the Dalton gang staged a raid on Northfield Minnesota, it was the armed local town folk (the Militia) that shot them down. Chicago should try it.  |
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Post by birder on Dec 4, 2021 22:56:27 GMT
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Post by walnut on Dec 4, 2021 23:24:14 GMT
The discussion of the 2nd amendment is all about punctuation. A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRIMGED. There was no standing army then, there is now, as well as a hundred or so heavily armed government agencies. The whole point of the constitution was to limit government power. The militia and the people have always been separate. Note: Grandfather on my father's side of the family, direct lineage, my middle name is passed down from him, was both a Minute-Man and served in the Continental army. I would post up a pic of his tombstone, but then the place would become overrun with tourists.
So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country?
Thomas Jefferson thoughts on limiting arms:
"That to "bear" arms means simply to carry them was clear in a game bill
drafted by Thomas Jefferson and proposed by James Madison, draftsman of
the Second Amendment, in the Virginia legislature.' The bill would have
fined those who hunted deer out of season, and if within a year "[the hunter]
shall bear a gun out of his inclosed ground, unless whilst performing military
duty," he shall be in violation of his recognizance. The game violator would
have to go back to court for "every such bearing of a gun" to be again bound
to his good behavior.
Thus, in the minds of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, to "bear" a
gun meant to carry it about in one's hands or on one's person, as for instance
a deer hunter would do. "Bearing arms" is not associated with militia duty
only, for the language above addresses the "bearing of a gun" by any person
when not "performing military duty."
This suggests Jefferson thought states could impose restrictions on guns separate from the Federal Government, that states had rights not reserved by the Federal Government. (It seems that is an argument made by Mississippi in the ongoing abortion debates).
As to the militia being separate...
A thought the quote was serious and funny... Sure, he was saying everybody had a duty to the country but it also seems he was saying there were a few "important" individuals who didnt' engage in the duty .... I will let you insert your favorite politician's name.
"So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country? "
No.
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Post by missouriboy on Dec 5, 2021 1:26:16 GMT
No! When I was a kid there weren't ANY school shootings. Not for a lack of guns. There were plenty. I'd have to do some searching, but I think that the real onslaught of these incidents began in the last 20 years. Little neural circuits short-circuiting. |
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Post by walnut on Dec 5, 2021 1:40:28 GMT
No! When I was a kid there weren't ANY school shootings. Not for a lack of guns. There were plenty. I'd have to do some searching, but I think that the real onslaught of these incidents began in the last 20 years. Little neural circuits short-circuiting. My dad told me a story about some older boys bringing some dynamite to school when he was a kid, for some work needed done, I don't remember what. Somehow no one was killed. |
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dej
New Member
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Post by dej on Dec 5, 2021 2:22:57 GMT
Me and a couple of buds in 8th grade would bring our shotguns to school and we would turn them in to the Principle and pick them up when school was over. Did this many times. Great times Pheasant hunting.
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Post by code on Dec 5, 2021 2:31:37 GMT
Note: Grandfather on my father's side of the family, direct lineage, my middle name is passed down from him, was both a Minute-Man and served in the Continental army. I would post up a pic of his tombstone, but then the place would become overrun with tourists.
So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country?
Thomas Jefferson thoughts on limiting arms:
"That to "bear" arms means simply to carry them was clear in a game bill
drafted by Thomas Jefferson and proposed by James Madison, draftsman of
the Second Amendment, in the Virginia legislature.' The bill would have
fined those who hunted deer out of season, and if within a year "[the hunter]
shall bear a gun out of his inclosed ground, unless whilst performing military
duty," he shall be in violation of his recognizance. The game violator would
have to go back to court for "every such bearing of a gun" to be again bound
to his good behavior.
Thus, in the minds of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, to "bear" a
gun meant to carry it about in one's hands or on one's person, as for instance
a deer hunter would do. "Bearing arms" is not associated with militia duty
only, for the language above addresses the "bearing of a gun" by any person
when not "performing military duty."
This suggests Jefferson thought states could impose restrictions on guns separate from the Federal Government, that states had rights not reserved by the Federal Government. (It seems that is an argument made by Mississippi in the ongoing abortion debates).
As to the militia being separate...
A thought the quote was serious and funny... Sure, he was saying everybody had a duty to the country but it also seems he was saying there were a few "important" individuals who didnt' engage in the duty .... I will let you insert your favorite politician's name.
"So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country? "
No.
sure sounds like they were talking about defense of country, not person. |
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Post by code on Dec 5, 2021 2:33:22 GMT
No! When I was a kid there weren't ANY school shootings. Not for a lack of guns. There were plenty. I'd have to do some searching, but I think that the real onslaught of these incidents began in the last 20 years. Little neural circuits short-circuiting. Agree. When I was a kid there were no school shooting I can remember.
Today trash is on the streets.
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Post by walnut on Dec 5, 2021 3:14:00 GMT
"So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country? "
No.
sure sounds like they were talking about defense of country, not person.
Certainly depends on what you think they meant by the word "militia". And, I never said that the constitution intended that arms were solely for personal defense.
One definition from the Oxford Languages Dictionary: a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities in opposition to a regular army.
In the event that the federal government begins conducting sham elections, our state militias might not choose to support the standing army of the US.
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Post by walnut on Dec 5, 2021 3:26:29 GMT
No! When I was a kid there weren't ANY school shootings. Not for a lack of guns. There were plenty. I'd have to do some searching, but I think that the real onslaught of these incidents began in the last 20 years. Little neural circuits short-circuiting. Agree. When I was a kid there were no school shooting I can remember.
Today trash is on the streets.
While terrible when they do occur, school shooting death numbers are miniscule given the size of the USA. In all of 2020, there were 5 school shooting deaths in this entire country. Meanwhile, Chicago might have over 25 shooting deaths over any given weekend. Are black lives less valuable to gun grabbing liberals? Why are American black people so incredibly violent? Virtually all US gun violence happens in the large blue cities.
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Post by pbfoot on Dec 5, 2021 3:30:13 GMT
The discussion of the 2nd amendment is all about punctuation. A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRIMGED. There was no standing army then, there is now, as well as a hundred or so heavily armed government agencies. The whole point of the constitution was to limit government power. The militia and the people have always been separate. Note: Grandfather on my father's side of the family, direct lineage, my middle name is passed down from him, was both a Minute-Man and served in the Continental army. I would post up a pic of his tombstone, but then the place would become overrun with tourists.
So, the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is defense of country?
Thomas Jefferson thoughts on limiting arms:
"That to "bear" arms means simply to carry them was clear in a game bill
drafted by Thomas Jefferson and proposed by James Madison, draftsman of
the Second Amendment, in the Virginia legislature.' The bill would have
fined those who hunted deer out of season, and if within a year "[the hunter]
shall bear a gun out of his inclosed ground, unless whilst performing military
duty," he shall be in violation of his recognizance. The game violator would
have to go back to court for "every such bearing of a gun" to be again bound
to his good behavior.
Thus, in the minds of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, to "bear" a
gun meant to carry it about in one's hands or on one's person, as for instance
a deer hunter would do. "Bearing arms" is not associated with militia duty
only, for the language above addresses the "bearing of a gun" by any person
when not "performing military duty."
This suggests Jefferson thought states could impose restrictions on guns separate from the Federal Government, that states had rights not reserved by the Federal Government. (It seems that is an argument made by Mississippi in the ongoing abortion debate).
As to the militia being separate...
I thought the quote was serious and funny... Sure, he was saying everybody had a duty to the country but it also seems he was saying there were a few "important" individuals who didnt' engage in the duty .... I will let you insert your favorite politician's name.
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.” – Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787 |
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Post by pbfoot on Dec 5, 2021 3:32:01 GMT
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Post by pbfoot on Dec 5, 2021 3:37:46 GMT
The intention of the 2nd amendment was 2 fold. One was to ensure that small militias were allowed,meaning states rights, the other was to ensure that every free man had a God given right to self defense. That is the amazing thing about the American experiment, there are god given rights that no government or man can take from you. The fact that the Constitution was amended to include this God given right is unique in this evil world. Like everything good we have allowed it to become subverted. Enough.
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