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Post by flearider on Mar 23, 2023 6:02:08 GMT
I would have to disagree. The Japanese build quality. Quality cars, electronics and other manufactured goods. The Chinese build shit. The Japanese fully embraced democracy and capitalism and did not build cities to nowhere. The Chinese government is not one elected by the people nor do they fully embrace democracy. I don't shower pity on the Chinese. They are a good, hardworking people. I just don't embrace their communist government. You say you don’t like China because it is a Communist country.
There are 80 million privately owned businesses in China. 50 million are registered with the government. There are over 50,000 foreign-owned companies operating in China including Tesla. They have a capitalistic economic system (private ownership of capital goods).
Wikipedia says “Communism is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement, whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society.”
China is no longer a Communistic country. They were in the early 1980’s. They shifted to capitalism and their world GDP percentage is sky-rocketing. China has shaken off the shackles. By the way, I’m not pointing this out because I’m cheering for China. definitely not capitalism can't be when the owner of a company can be taken away for reprograming ...for months on end or disappear completely over night
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CHINA
Mar 23, 2023 16:03:22 GMT
Post by justme on Mar 23, 2023 16:03:22 GMT
definitely not capitalism can't be when the owner of a company can be taken away for reprograming ...for months on end or disappear completely over night From Harvard Business Review: hbr.org/2021/05/americans-dont-know-how-capitalist-china-isThe world is dynamic and constantly changing (just like the climate). Just because a government embraced a governing style 50 years ago, does not require it to be static and unchanging. Heck, Is still see older people refusing to use any other method of payment, except for cash. Western intelligence talking points have indoctrinated many. Posters in here are constantly predicting a Chinese economic collapse. Yet, the USA just had their second biggest bank collapse in history, and Chinese GDP continues to grow among the fastest in the world.
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CHINA
Mar 23, 2023 16:51:31 GMT
Post by duwayne on Mar 23, 2023 16:51:31 GMT
Duwayne were never going to agree on this topic so let’s just refer to the Chinese economic system as “Woke Capitalism “! As I said much earlier the Chinese economic system is capitalism using the generally accepted definition of capitalism. I think that's a statement of fact. I don't know whether you agree or not.
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CHINA
Mar 23, 2023 17:22:10 GMT
Post by duwayne on Mar 23, 2023 17:22:10 GMT
You say you don’t like China because it is a Communist country.
There are 80 million privately owned businesses in China. 50 million are registered with the government. There are over 50,000 foreign-owned companies operating in China including Tesla. They have a capitalistic economic system (private ownership of capital goods).
Wikipedia says “Communism is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement, whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society.”
China is no longer a Communistic country. They were in the early 1980’s. They shifted to capitalism and their world GDP percentage is sky-rocketing. China has shaken off the shackles. By the way, I’m not pointing this out because I’m cheering for China. definitely not capitalism can't be when the owner of a company can be taken away for reprograming ...for months on end or disappear completely over night Flearider, are you saying that under capitalism, governments can't set rules which business owners are required to follow? Tell me in which dictionary you find that definition of capitalism.
(By the way, I hit the "like button" on your original post by accident, I meant to hit the quote button)
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CHINA
Mar 23, 2023 19:29:12 GMT
Post by glennkoks on Mar 23, 2023 19:29:12 GMT
Duwayne were never going to agree on this topic so let’s just refer to the Chinese economic system as “Woke Capitalism “! As I said much earlier the Chinese economic system is capitalism using the generally accepted definition of capitalism. I think that's a statement of fact. I don't know whether you agree or not.
According to any definition in any of the english speaking dictionaries they are not "capitalists". But why not go right to the horses mouth. The CCP themselves say they are not capitalists. "The CCP maintains that despite the co-existence of private capitalists and entrepreneurs with public and collective enterprise, China is not a capitalist country because the party retains control over the direction of the country, maintaining its course of socialist development." Wiki So they don't fit the definition. They don't even call themselves capitalists but you keep insisting they are.
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Post by justme on Mar 23, 2023 19:52:10 GMT
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Post by nonentropic on Mar 23, 2023 21:15:39 GMT
This is a sort off agree but still find disagreement argument.
Clearly the CCP used a market economic system to unleash the Chinese economic potential to great affect but clearly also up until now there are social and economic restrictions that only a nondemocratic state can maintain. So the growth in economic performance was only possible with that liberation but the average income of a Chinese family is still modest and as Milton Friedman said, economic and political freedom are linked.
The Chinese will as they become wealthier want more say. There will be friction me thinks.
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CHINA
Mar 23, 2023 21:32:22 GMT
Post by missouriboy on Mar 23, 2023 21:32:22 GMT
This is a sort off agree but still find disagreement argument. Clearly the CCP used a market economic system to unleash the Chinese economic potential to great affect but clearly also up until now there are social and economic restrictions that only a nondemocratic state can maintain. So the growth in economic performance was only possible with that liberation but the average income of a Chinese family is still modest and as Milton Friedman said, economic and political freedom are linked. The Chinese will as they become wealthier want more say. There will be friction me thinks. Aged Hedgemons rarely go quietly. They have no where to go. The sun also sets.
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CHINA
Mar 24, 2023 4:51:00 GMT
Post by nonentropic on Mar 24, 2023 4:51:00 GMT
there will be blood you mean
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Post by blustnmtn on Mar 24, 2023 12:20:45 GMT
there will be blood you mean I spent 10 days in China a year before Tiananmen Square. My thoughts then were it’s only a matter of time before these people yearn for freedom. How long will the regime be able to keep the cork in the bottle? That was a generation ago and the Tiananmen uprising has been memory holed. Mind control coupled with ruthless suppression works. Meanwhile, the West and the U.S. population is slowly, relentlessly letting freedom slip away. I am not optimistic for Humanity at large. It will take catastrophic forces to reverse this course.
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CHINA
Mar 24, 2023 16:55:42 GMT
Post by missouriboy on Mar 24, 2023 16:55:42 GMT
there will be blood you mean Unfortunately, Yes. No one knows why the "Turnings" come, but historically they seem to. Perhaps Lemmings could tell us why ... or not.
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Post by duwayne on Mar 24, 2023 19:21:10 GMT
I've been going to China before and after the Tiananmen Square incident. My understanding was the students were demonstrating mainly for a democratic government and a free press. In my trips there since, I haven't seen that they got their wish since the one-party rule system remains in place and the press is still subject to the CPC's whims.
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CHINA
Mar 24, 2023 20:41:39 GMT
Post by missouriboy on Mar 24, 2023 20:41:39 GMT
I've been going to China before and after the Tiananmen Square incident. My understanding was the students were demonstrating mainly for a democratic government and a free press. In my trips there since, I haven't seen that they got their wish since the one-party rule system remains in place and the press is still subject to the CPC's whims.
I became acquainted with a few Chinese students at the university of Florida in the 90s. Those who felt comfortable enough to talk about Tiananmen said essentially the same. Always wondered what happened to this guy. Brave man.
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Post by flearider on Mar 25, 2023 7:14:59 GMT
I've been going to China before and after the Tiananmen Square incident. My understanding was the students were demonstrating mainly for a democratic government and a free press. In my trips there since, I haven't seen that they got their wish since the one-party rule system remains in place and the press is still subject to the CPC's whims.
I became acquainted with a few Chinese students at the university of Florida in the 90s. Those who felt comfortable enough to talk about Tiananmen said essentially the same. Always wondered what happened to this guy. Brave man. Believed to be Wang Weilin , a 19-year-old student, little is known for sure about him. Many believe he was arrested by the two people who pulled him away from the scene and later executed. Others think the two people rescued him and Tank Man returned to a life of anonymity. It is believed that he probably remained in China because his identity was never revealed.
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Post by gridley on Mar 25, 2023 15:04:54 GMT
I became acquainted with a few Chinese students at the university of Florida in the 90s. Those who felt comfortable enough to talk about Tiananmen said essentially the same. Always wondered what happened to this guy. Brave man. Believed to be Wang Weilin , a 19-year-old student, little is known for sure about him. Many believe he was arrested by the two people who pulled him away from the scene and later executed. Others think the two people rescued him and Tank Man returned to a life of anonymity. It is believed that he probably remained in China because his identity was never revealed. I wonder what happened to the driver/commander of the lead tank - were they punished for stopping? I wouldn't be surprised.
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