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Post by blustnmtn on Sept 12, 2021 19:48:34 GMT
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Post by blustnmtn on Sept 12, 2021 19:53:08 GMT
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Post by blustnmtn on Jan 18, 2022 13:53:26 GMT
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Post by missouriboy on Jan 18, 2022 16:07:54 GMT
Good call Blu. As a young geology student back when, I remember that early Earth history was taught as a cooling Earth theory. Over eons, cooling allowed the crust to soldify. Simplistic ... but what we observe today is a continuation of same process. Geothermal heat continues to be released along fracture zones (plate boundaries) and hot spots(New Guinea, Hawaiian Islands, etc). It is a simple step to postulate on how these heat releases affect oceanic distributions of heat ... both continuous and periodic. Since 2000, Argo ocean buoys have allowed an evolving view of the top 2000 meters of our planets oceans. As the regular NOAA ENSO pubs show, there warm streamers that show up at depth. NOAA does not venture below 400 meters in its publications, but I'm sure that NOAA scientists regularly speculate on what ARGO shows ... but no Federal Scientist Bureaucrat goes outside the bounds of what is agreed to up the chain of command. I think our retired geology friend James Kamis has a very good thesis. |
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Post by duwayne on Jan 18, 2022 22:15:46 GMT
I can see some merit to the argument that the effect of heat from geologic sources on global temperatures may not be fully recognized by some “experts” but I think it’s going way too far as the author does, to say “The “eruptive” nature of El Niño ocean warming is interpreted as direct evidence that geological, and not atmospheric forces, generate El Niños.”
Here's what I believe causes El Ninos.
If the westerly winds along the equator significantly increase, surface water is driven west and it is replaced in the east by upwelling cool water which spreads towards the west. If this continues for a few months, the surface of the ocean area labeled ENSO3.4 cools down and if gets cool enough you have a La Nina.
If, on the other hand, the westerlies die down below normal or reverse, the water which has been stacked up in the west sloshes back to the east. The cool water upwelling in the east stops. The surface of ENSO3.4 warms. If this lasts long enough and the warming is strong enough there is an El Nino.
The atmosphere (winds) play the major role in El Ninos. |
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Post by blustnmtn on Jan 18, 2022 22:47:17 GMT
I can see some merit to the argument that the effect of heat from geologic sources on global temperatures may not be fully recognized by some “experts” but I think it’s going way too far as the author does, to say “The “eruptive” nature of El Niño ocean warming is interpreted as direct evidence that geological, and not atmospheric forces, generate El Niños.”
Here's what I believe causes El Ninos.
If the westerly winds along the equator significantly increase, surface water is driven west and it is replaced in the east by upwelling cool water which spreads towards the west. If this continues for a few months, the surface of the ocean area labeled ENSO3.4 cools down and if gets cool enough you have a La Nina.
If, on the other hand, the westerlies die down below normal or reverse, the water which has been stacked up in the west sloshes back to the east. The cool water upwelling in the east stops. The surface of ENSO3.4 warms. If this lasts long enough and the warming is strong enough there is an El Nino.
The atmosphere (winds) play the major role in El Ninos. I don’t disagree Duwayne. |
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Post by ratty on Jan 19, 2022 0:11:20 GMT
I can see some merit to the argument that the effect of heat from geologic sources on global temperatures may not be fully recognized by some “experts” but I think it’s going way too far as the author does, to say “The “eruptive” nature of El Niño ocean warming is interpreted as direct evidence that geological, and not atmospheric forces, generate El Niños.” Here's what I believe causes El Ninos.
If the westerly winds along the equator significantly increase, surface water is driven west and it is replaced in the east by upwelling cool water which spreads towards the west. If this continues for a few months, the surface of the ocean area labeled ENSO3.4 cools down and if gets cool enough you have a La Nina. If, on the other hand, the westerlies die down below normal or reverse, the water which has been stacked up in the west sloshes back to the east. The cool water upwelling in the east stops. The surface of ENSO3.4 warms. If this lasts long enough and the warming is strong enough there is an El Nino. The atmosphere (winds) play the major role in El Ninos. I don’t disagree Duwayne. ... but, what causes the westerly winds to significantly increase? Eruptive warming near New Guinea? No idea really, just asking. |
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Post by Sigurdur on Jan 19, 2022 3:33:11 GMT
I can see some merit to the argument that the effect of heat from geologic sources on global temperatures may not be fully recognized by some “experts” but I think it’s going way too far as the author does, to say “The “eruptive” nature of El Niño ocean warming is interpreted as direct evidence that geological, and not atmospheric forces, generate El Niños.”
Here's what I believe causes El Ninos.
If the westerly winds along the equator significantly increase, surface water is driven west and it is replaced in the east by upwelling cool water which spreads towards the west. If this continues for a few months, the surface of the ocean area labeled ENSO3.4 cools down and if gets cool enough you have a La Nina.
If, on the other hand, the westerlies die down below normal or reverse, the water which has been stacked up in the west sloshes back to the east. The cool water upwelling in the east stops. The surface of ENSO3.4 warms. If this lasts long enough and the warming is strong enough there is an El Nino.
The atmosphere (winds) play the major role in El Ninos. I think it is a combination. Also, the Humboldt current plays a huge roll. Multiple dynamics at work. |
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Post by duwayne on Jan 19, 2022 19:46:55 GMT
I can see some merit to the argument that the effect of heat from geologic sources on global temperatures may not be fully recognized by some “experts” but I think it’s going way too far as the author does, to say “The “eruptive” nature of El Niño ocean warming is interpreted as direct evidence that geological, and not atmospheric forces, generate El Niños.”
Here's what I believe causes El Ninos.
If the westerly winds along the equator significantly increase, surface water is driven west and it is replaced in the east by upwelling cool water which spreads towards the west. If this continues for a few months, the surface of the ocean area labeled ENSO3.4 cools down and if gets cool enough you have a La Nina.
If, on the other hand, the westerlies die down below normal or reverse, the water which has been stacked up in the west sloshes back to the east. The cool water upwelling in the east stops. The surface of ENSO3.4 warms. If this lasts long enough and the warming is strong enough there is an El Nino.
The atmosphere (winds) play the major role in El Ninos. I think it is a combination. Also, the Humboldt current plays a huge roll. Multiple dynamics at work. I see the wind-driven ENSO affecting the Humboldt current more than the other way around. When the water gets stacked up in the east along the equator near South America by ENSO the nutrient-rich and cool Humboldt current flowing north gets blocked. The current warms as the upwelling slows and the fish die and the economy suffers, sometimes for years.
When the winds turn around and blow strongly west, the water levels drop along the South American coast and the Humboldt current flows north normally and helps supply cool (upwelled) water.
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Post by Sigurdur on Jan 19, 2022 23:13:20 GMT
I think it is a combination. Also, the Humboldt current plays a huge roll. Multiple dynamics at work. I see the wind-driven ENSO affecting the Humboldt current more than the other way around. When the water gets stacked up in the east along the equator near South America by ENSO the nutrient-rich and cool Humboldt current flowing north gets blocked. The current warms as the upwelling slows and the fish die and the economy suffers, sometimes for years.
When the winds turn around and blow strongly west, the water levels drop along the South American coast and the Humboldt current flows north normally and helps supply cool (upwelled) water.
There is a paper I read once that indicated the fluctuations in the Humboldt current preceeded the formation of a El Niño. I am going to have to see if I can find it. Prior to the paper, I understood that trade winds were the primary engine. Also, it is now being understood that Tele connections play a part in the trade wind shifts. I don't have a problem with that as both LA Nina and El Nino result in worldwide teleconnections. |
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Post by missouriboy on Feb 23, 2022 16:25:00 GMT
More on geothermal inputs to the ocean and climate. Alternate theses exercise the mind.
Overview: Seafloor Eruptions and Ocean Warming
PLATE CLIMATOLOGY THEORY
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Post by blustnmtn on Mar 14, 2022 19:10:41 GMT
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Post by Sigurdur on Mar 15, 2022 1:15:48 GMT
Last few lines, warming due to human activity I somewhat disagree with.
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Post by blustnmtn on Mar 27, 2022 12:21:45 GMT
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Post by blustnmtn on Apr 20, 2022 12:30:11 GMT
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