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Post by code on May 27, 2022 17:42:31 GMT
A Whole Age of Warfare Sank With the Moskva
Maybe, but reports seem to indicate the ship did little to protect itself. |
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Post by missouriboy on May 28, 2022 0:46:20 GMT
A Whole Age of Warfare Sank With the Moskva
Maybe, but reports seem to indicate the ship did little to protect itself. Whatever they come up with, they better prepare to defend their/our hugely expensive carrier platforms from swarms of relatively cheap ship-killing drones and missiles. |
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Post by walnut on May 28, 2022 3:44:35 GMT
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Post by duwayne on May 28, 2022 16:14:50 GMT
It will be interesting to see whether China’s amazing economic growth will continue.
I’ve been involved with China for a long time and here’s my quick review of their history as I observed it.
In the 1970’s, China was extremely poor ($200 per capita GDP). They had tried various things to advance including some pretty drastic moves such as sending all the upper elite to work as farm laborers and replacing them with new blood. Nothing worked.
They watched Hong Kong’s success and tried to duplicate it but they couldn’t do the simple things like building a port that worked. Then someone came along and suggested they allow a group to try to build a port and they would be allowed to keep the money they made without government interference. Private enterprise. It worked like a charm.
They tried this approach on other things and it kept working.
Individuals became very rich. Deng Xiaoping, who was the brains behind this new approach, made a famous speech. “It is honorable to be rich.” This was to stamp down the urge in many to denigrate the wealthy capitalists in a society where supposedly everyone was equal.
Capitalism came to China and they made a meteoric rise. But they have an odd mix of relatively free markets while their government is not so free thinking.
One problem with capitalism is there are some blips along the way. That’s normal. So far China has stuck with capitalism with limited interference. Some control makes sense.
Has capitalism taken China as far as it can? Will the current blip cause the faith in capitalism to erode? Will the urge to control stop and even reverse progress? |
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Post by walnut on May 28, 2022 17:06:20 GMT
I'm not a big fan. China treats their people like children. Have you listened to what Charlie Munger says about China? He shows his authoritarian stripes. (He said that arresting Jack Ma made sense for the greater good of business. The US should more tightly control it's own population and business will run more smoothly. The Fed should be given broader powers. etc...)
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Post by walnut on May 28, 2022 17:53:33 GMT
It will be interesting to see whether China’s amazing economic growth will continue.
I’ve been involved with China for a long time and here’s my quick review of their history as I observed it.
In the 1970’s, China was extremely poor ($200 per capita GDP). They had tried various things to advance including some pretty drastic moves such as sending all the upper elite to work as farm laborers and replacing them with new blood. Nothing worked.
They watched Hong Kong’s success and tried to duplicate it but they couldn’t do the simple things like building a port that worked. Then someone came along and suggested they allow a group to try to build a port and they would be allowed to keep the money they made without government interference. Private enterprise. It worked like a charm.
They tried this approach on other things and it kept working.
Individuals became very rich. Deng Xiaoping, who was the brains behind this new approach, made a famous speech. “It is honorable to be rich.” This was to stamp down the urge in many to denigrate the wealthy capitalists in a society where supposedly everyone was equal.
Capitalism came to China and they made a meteoric rise. But they have an odd mix of relatively free markets while their government is not so free thinking.
One problem with capitalism is there are some blips along the way. That’s normal. So far China has stuck with capitalism with limited interference. Some control makes sense.
Has capitalism taken China as far as it can? Will the current blip cause the faith in capitalism to erode? Will the urge to control stop and even reverse progress? Individuals did become very rich. But the median household income of China is still only $4,500, even Mississippi is at $45,000. The growth was spectacular, but I think China is over-hyped. The place is just big. |
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Post by nonentropic on May 29, 2022 3:54:03 GMT
I don't agree with Duwayne the problem is the background mistrust of capitalism and cronyism, both big problems when a country moves from a dictatorship to a market economy.
The other problem is that much of China is little different to the times of old and although the average GDP per capita may be $4500 a strip in the east with 200 million people are much closer to us than you think to the levels we enjoy.
This tension between the CCP and the 200 million is what this is about the other 1.2 billion just want to be given a chance to join in. Milton Friedman said many years ago that democracy and wealth are joined at the hip. The CCP wish to differ with Milton.
The ensuing blood bath will define China within the next years, I hope for all that the CCP is jettisoned forthwith.
The Ukraine is a defining moment for the West and so far the West has passed the test but there is much room to stumble and fall.
Lastly the climate emergency is toast.
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Post by duwayne on May 30, 2022 17:51:34 GMT
I don't agree with Duwayne the problem is the background mistrust of capitalism and cronyism, both big problems when a country moves from a dictatorship to a market economy. The other problem is that much of China is little different to the times of old and although the average GDP per capita may be $4500 a strip in the east with 200 million people are much closer to us than you think to the levels we enjoy. This tension between the CCP and the 200 million is what this is about the other 1.2 billion just want to be given a chance to join in. Milton Friedman said many years ago that democracy and wealth are joined at the hip. The CCP wish to differ with Milton. The ensuing blood bath will define China within the next years, I hope for all that the CCP is jettisoned forthwith. The Ukraine is a defining moment for the West and so far the West has passed the test but there is much room to stumble and fall. Lastly the climate emergency is toast. Nonentropic, can you be specific about what you disagree with? Please quote what I said that you disagree with. |
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Post by duwayne on May 30, 2022 23:43:47 GMT
While waiting for a response from Nonentropic as to why he disagrees with my post above, I thought I would post this graph from Wikipedia showing "China's amazing growth" which I referred to. The growth didn't come from population growth since this is a percentage of world chart and China's population growth is lower than average. The growth came from per capita GDP growth and as Walnut says, it's still quite low which could mean there's room for a lot more growth. My post was focused on whether this would happen since I thought this was a fairly important question.
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Post by walnut on May 30, 2022 23:58:18 GMT
While waiting for a response from Nonentropic as to why he disagrees with my post above, I thought I would post this graph from Wikipedia showing "China's amazing growth" which I referred to. The growth didn't come from population growth since this is a percentage of world chart and China's population growth is lower than average. The growth came from per capita GDP growth and as Walnut says, it's still quite low which could mean there's room for a lot more growth. My post was focused on whether this would happen since I thought this was a fairly important question.
As China gets closer to Western labor cost rates, the annual growth will have to come down. I'm not sure what I believe from China's jingoistic accounting. Maybe it's all real, I don't know. |
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Post by youngjasper on May 31, 2022 0:44:43 GMT
Can the numbers from China even be trusted?
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Post by missouriboy on May 31, 2022 3:20:19 GMT
I don't agree with Duwayne the problem is the background mistrust of capitalism and cronyism, both big problems when a country moves from a dictatorship to a market economy. The other problem is that much of China is little different to the times of old and although the average GDP per capita may be $4500 a strip in the east with 200 million people are much closer to us than you think to the levels we enjoy. This tension between the CCP and the 200 million is what this is about the other 1.2 billion just want to be given a chance to join in. Milton Friedman said many years ago that democracy and wealth are joined at the hip. The CCP wish to differ with Milton. The ensuing blood bath will define China within the next years, I hope for all that the CCP is jettisoned forthwith. The Ukraine is a defining moment for the West and so far the West has passed the test but there is much room to stumble and fall. Lastly the climate emergency is toast. We surely wish, But they have built up a lot of political capital Non, and are still kicking and screaming to their multitudes of devoted followers. Most people are too busy working to care whether the world is 1C warmer or 1C colder. The Climate Goebbels have been trying to convince the Public that warmer is bad and +2 or 3 C is a disaster. It is repeated in all forums that have a climate/energy component. As you said Non, we need a definite, definitive move with results that cannot be ignored in order to break the backs of the climate alarmists. Big enough that it is repeated verbatum in local areas. The current paradigm has been building for many years and has become reflex. I don't personally like the idea of suffering myself.  But better the laws of nature than the laws of Mann ... or Gore ... or Worse. You can trust Mother Nature to be non-discriminatory (except for morons). She doesn't give a sh_t. |
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Post by nonentropic on May 31, 2022 8:37:47 GMT
Duwayne I think I may have miss stated what I wanted to say my disagreement was more with some of your speculations than your observations in fact they are very interesting. Capitalism is vital for China the people are naturals for the system of economic management. but wealth and freedom are not easily separated or willingly separated.
I am traveling so not fully engaged.
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Post by gridley on May 31, 2022 10:56:14 GMT
Can the numbers from China even be trusted? Always a good question on any numbers from China. The answer seems to be "no" most of the time, though I don't know about this specific case. |
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 1, 2022 21:49:53 GMT
Can the numbers from China even be trusted? Always a good question on any numbers from China. The answer seems to be "no" most of the time, though I don't know about this specific case. If we can't trust our own numbers, why would we trust China's? |
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But better the laws of nature than the laws of Mann ... or Gore ... or Worse. You can trust Mother Nature to be non-discriminatory (except for morons). She doesn't give a sh_t.