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Post by Sigurdur on Jul 19, 2021 1:42:22 GMT
Right back at you, then. If those aren't your assumptions, then you posted something you believed was wrong.
One of your claims was "You're (meaning me) assuming that people who haven't been reported as cases haven't had the virus."
I've listed above a reference to a CDC estimate of 83 million COVID infections which is much higher than the cases reported. Several days ago on this thread I listed a higher, (more recent) CDC estimate of infections. I don't assume these estimates are perfect. So what you said isn't true. I do accept apologies.
Do you know of a case where someone who was killed by a car was listed as a COVID death by the CDC as you referenced above? If so, I'd like a reference.
www.ksbw.com/article/northern-california-county-changes-covid-19-death-reporting/36641556#
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Post by ratty on Jul 19, 2021 3:56:34 GMT
One of your claims was "You're (meaning me) assuming that people who haven't been reported as cases haven't had the virus." I've listed above a reference to a CDC estimate of 83 million COVID infections which is much higher than the cases reported. Several days ago on this thread I listed a higher, (more recent) CDC estimate of infections. I don't assume these estimates are perfect. So what you said isn't true. I do accept apologies.
Do you know of a case where someone who was killed by a car was listed as a COVID death by the CDC as you referenced above? If so, I'd like a reference.
www.ksbw.com/article/northern-california-county-changes-covid-19-death-reporting/36641556#We have similar reporting rules here but hard to find a direct reference. Our local Queensland CHO is on record as saying as much. Slightly related: More than 70% of Australian COVID deaths had pre-existing conditions
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Post by nonentropic on Jul 19, 2021 5:45:45 GMT
I'm going to suggest that its actually 100% have pre existing conditions.
The point being that we are all physiologically different and should a malfunction happen with a challenge is presented then that by definition is a per-existing condition.
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Post by Sigurdur on Jul 19, 2021 13:02:34 GMT
I have seen similar. What I haven't found, are documented cases of people previously infected, that were re-infected. Possible. But when the authorities claim that only vaccines are the way forward, that's a problem. Have read 3 minor studies indicating Covid19 induced immunity is pretty much iron clad. The level of breakthrough infection when vaccinated appears to be accelerating. The acceleration is clearly exposed by Texas Democrats who fled their state. This now becomes a political opportunity for the present administration. Lockdowns etc are potentially not far away. I didn't Lockdown the 1st time, sure as hell am not locking down if "ordered" next time
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Post by code on Jul 19, 2021 14:32:58 GMT
I will talk with my wife and provide some thoughts after I do, for those of you who don't know she works in an ICU with Covid patients, they have gotten busier of late with the unvaccinated.
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 19, 2021 14:55:12 GMT
I have seen similar. What I haven't found, are documented cases of people previously infected, that were re-infected. Possible. But when the authorities claim that only vaccines are the way forward, that's a problem. Have read 3 minor studies indicating Covid19 induced immunity is pretty much iron clad. The level of breakthrough infection when vaccinated appears to be accelerating. The acceleration is clearly exposed by Texas Democrats who fled their state. This now becomes a political opportunity for the present administration. Lockdowns etc are potentially not far away. I didn't Lockdown the 1st time, sure as hell am not locking down if "ordered" next time I'm with ya Sig. I think that Non is essentially right in his evaluation of risk that any of us face: "I'm going to suggest that its actually 100% have pre existing conditions". Now, it IS possible that I could have a Tennessee moment and wake up tomorrow surrounded by the whole Damn Mexican Army (Covid) ... but the odds suggest that this is not the Hill ... unless it comes at the hands of our own government. Those odds are higher. Crazy Joe COULD get really crazy. But what the hell.
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Post by duwayne on Jul 19, 2021 17:15:58 GMT
One of your claims was "You're (meaning me) assuming that people who haven't been reported as cases haven't had the virus."
I've listed above a reference to a CDC estimate of 83 million COVID infections which is much higher than the cases reported. Several days ago on this thread I listed a higher, (more recent) CDC estimate of infections. I don't assume these estimates are perfect. So what you said isn't true. I do accept apologies.
Do you know of a case where someone who was killed by a car was listed as a COVID death by the CDC as you referenced above? If so, I'd like a reference.
As for the death by COVID-19/CDC there were several posts on the old board... where we also established you don't like reading other people's posts. And, as here, you selectively ignore things. If it weren't for your posts on other threads I'd assume you were a troll.
So, I apologize for giving you a second chance after blocking you on the old board.
That 114 million figure is the same as I reported in my June 8 at 6:55pm post on the old board. I couldn't recall the exact number when I posted above but said it was about 33% of the population. Missouriboy calculates it to be 34%.
I don't know the details of your complaint about my ignoring posts, but that's an odd thing to complain about when you say you blocked mine.
I think if you block me on this board that would be even better than an apology. That would eliminate your incorrect (and Andrew-like) replies which I feel necessitates a response on my part.
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 20, 2021 4:10:31 GMT
Re-infection of the documented previously-infected population is an interesting topic for me. I think it is also a very important medical issue. By documented I suppose that would be only be those that have had positive covid antibody tests ... minus anyone having taken the vaccine. I remember one relatively large study that I found and posted on the solarcycle24 site that I need to refind and repost. Results as I remember them were NO (nada) re-infections in previously, naturally infecteded people AND some of the vaccinated becoming infected. We have seen an increase in the later in recent weeks. I have seen references to several similar studies but don't have them.
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Post by ratty on Jul 20, 2021 12:08:31 GMT
Re-infection of the documented previously-infected population is an interesting topic for me. I think it is also a very important medical issue. By documented I suppose that would be only be those that have had positive covid antibody tests ... minus anyone having taken the vaccine. I remember one relatively large study that I found and posted on the solarcycle24 site that I need to refind and repost. Results as I remember them were NO (nada) re-infections in previously, naturally infecteded people AND some of the vaccinated becoming infected. We have seen an increase in the later in recent weeks. I have seen references to several similar studies but don't have them. Mystery Queensland Covid-19 case with fully vaccinated woman testing positive unrelated to any known cluster - as South Australia plunges into lockdown and Victoria extends shutdown for a week . 14 million are now in lockdown across Australia as Covid crisis worsens
. South Australia in lockdown from 6pm on Tuesday after further two cases
. Victoria extended its lockdown for a week after 13 new cases were confirmed
. NSW recorded another 78 new cases, with 21 infectious in the community
. Queensland announced one new Covid case on Tuesday, a woman in her 20s
. Health officials suspect the student caught the virus at a Melbourne pub
. She was infectious in the Sunshine Coast before flying to the state's north
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Post by phydeaux2363 on Jul 20, 2021 13:13:38 GMT
One thing I almost never see in these scare stories about the dread Delta Variant or infection of the vaccinated is how sick are these people. It's one thing to raise the alarm if folks are being sent to ICU or dying, but quite another if their symptoms are the equivalent of a mild or even bad cold. If the latter, what's the concern? It seems we are just adding to the pool of protected folks. Lockdowns make even less sense in a world where 50% of the population is vaccinated than they did in 2020 when no one was. The fearmongers need to get a grip.
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 20, 2021 15:42:02 GMT
One thing I almost never see in these scare stories about the dread Delta Variant or infection of the vaccinated is how sick are these people. It's one thing to raise the alarm if folks are being sent to ICU or dying, but quite another if their symptoms are the equivalent of a mild or even bad cold. If the latter, what's the concern? It seems we are just adding to the pool of protected folks. Lockdowns make even less sense in a world where 50% of the population is vaccinated than they did in 2020 when no one was. The fearmongers need to get a grip. The political class have one prime motivation and that is the maintenance of power. That is exactly what they are trying to do. Like a pit bull if they have their way.
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Post by ratty on Jul 20, 2021 15:44:09 GMT
One thing I almost never see in these scare stories about the dread Delta Variant or infection of the vaccinated is how sick are these people. It's one thing to raise the alarm if folks are being sent to ICU or dying, but quite another if their symptoms are the equivalent of a mild or even bad cold. If the latter, what's the concern? It seems we are just adding to the pool of protected folks. Lockdowns make even less sense in a world where 50% of the population is vaccinated than they did in 2020 when no one was. The fearmongers need to get a grip. The political class have one prime motivation and that is the maintenance of power.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H. L. Mencken
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 20, 2021 16:20:47 GMT
The political class have one prime motivation and that is the maintenance of power.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H. L. Mencken In terms of "getting a grip" on how these things are done, it is somestimes useful to revisit evaluations of how similar "things" were done in the past. The phrase "Never let a crisis go to waste" did not originate with Rob Emanuel. Authoritarians often operate under the cloak of patriotism. www.grunge.com/409478/messed-up-things-that-happened-after-the-september-11th-attacks/
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Post by duwayne on Jul 20, 2021 22:03:41 GMT
The state of Virginia reports its cases, hospitalizations and deaths separately for those who were fully vaccinated and those who were not. Currently, a little over 50% are fully vaccinated. You can select the period for evaluation from the data they publish.
If I’ve done it correctly, for the last 3 weeks or so, June 15 to July 9 (the latest date available when I did this), just 2% of the cases, 5% of the hospitalizations and 5% of the deaths were fully vaccinated people.
The fully vaccinated group is about 50% of the total population and probably contains a higher percentage of older, more vulnerable, people.
I’ve provided the link below. The table that is included covers the time period back to when there were very few vaccinations. To better reflect the 50% fully vaccinated case, I moved the sliding bar (date range) at the top of the chart to select the June 15 to July 9 period.
If you look at longer periods, logically the fully vaccinated people are an even lower percentage of the bad outcomes since there were fewer vaccinated people.
www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
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Post by missouriboy on Jul 21, 2021 3:15:39 GMT
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