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Post by walnut on Jun 25, 2021 22:36:40 GMT
Holy crap.. This is sorta how the Ruby Ridge Massacre developed. Do not think independently, do not leave the Federal reservation. Well, I guess everyone has worked out my opinions, AGW, huge holes in mantra...Coronavirus, to me the skeptical rhetoric seems weak. Independent thought is a tool, use it with precision, its not a carpet bomb. I am skeptical about Coronavirus. A virus was exploited via a fear campaign to topple a president and usher in universal basic income and socialism. And practice controlling and oppressing the people.
We've pretty well beaten this dead horse, sorry.
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Post by walnut on Jun 25, 2021 22:46:33 GMT
Acid yes I've read your posts, I respect your thinking and I don't mean to sound dismissive. But I do not trust any statement issued by the US Federal government.
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Post by acidohm on Jun 25, 2021 22:56:49 GMT
Acid yes I've read your posts, I respect your thinking and I don't mean to sound dismissive. But I do not trust any statement issued by the US Federal government. Virus do what they do, they don't care if a gvmt issues a statement or not. Pretty much same with climate! |
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Post by walnut on Jun 25, 2021 23:10:19 GMT
Our political leaders ended many, many small businesses in the name of stopping a virus which was going to do what it will do, agreed. The carpet bombing campaign was the government's response to the virus.
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Post by acidohm on Jun 25, 2021 23:54:02 GMT
Our political leaders ended many, many small businesses in the name of stopping a virus which was going to do what it will do, agreed. The carpet bombing campaign was the government's response to the virus. We'll never know what the consequences of not taking action to prevent the spread of this disease would be (outside of Brazil and a few other countries) because the action was taken. What concerns me most is the speed at which the skeptical mind produces theories contrary to a perceived threat as if the threat is created by an authority. I was surprised by the polarity in opinion regarding AGW once I gathered the threads as to the true capacity of nature v "CO²" as a forcing on our climate. I was equally surprised once covid broke out that it should be considered in the same way as CO² by skeptics. I've yet to see anything occur regarding covid that isn't rational, it's an interesting novel virus, quirky and potentially consequential and its behaving as far as I can tell, within known parameters with predictable results. My mother asked me a few months ago if I thought, in the UK, we were over the worst of it, I replied, the only thing we have to worry about are new variants. Here we are now, delta (Indian) variant is affecting us. Either the world's gvmts got together and agreed India should take one for the team, or the virus is following a predictable path, in this case, the more cases the more chance of mutations. This is the same for all virus, not something unique. World gvmts cooperating would be.... I won't add more to this as I have no interest in adding or antagonising further. I've spent hours disagreeing with people on the Internet, I've no wish to do that anymore, especially here. |
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Post by walnut on Jun 26, 2021 1:04:23 GMT
Our political leaders ended many, many small businesses in the name of stopping a virus which was going to do what it will do, agreed. The carpet bombing campaign was the government's response to the virus. We'll never know what the consequences of not taking action to prevent the spread of this disease would be (outside of Brazil and a few other countries) because the action was taken. What concerns me most is the speed at which the skeptical mind produces theories contrary to a perceived threat as if the threat is created by an authority. I was surprised by the polarity in opinion regarding AGW once I gathered the threads as to the true capacity of nature v "CO²" as a forcing on our climate. I was equally surprised once covid broke out that it should be considered in the same way as CO² by skeptics. I've yet to see anything occur regarding covid that isn't rational, it's an interesting novel virus, quirky and potentially consequential and its behaving as far as I can tell, within known parameters with predictable results. My mother asked me a few months ago if I thought, in the UK, we were over the worst of it, I replied, the only thing we have to worry about are new variants. Here we are now, delta (Indian) variant is affecting us. Either the world's gvmts got together and agreed India should take one for the team, or the virus is following a predictable path, in this case, the more cases the more chance of mutations. This is the same for all virus, not something unique. World gvmts cooperating would be.... I won't add more to this as I have no interest in adding or antagonising further. I've spent hours disagreeing with people on the Internet, I've no wish to do that anymore, especially here. The virus is dangerous, I am not arguing that. I think that our family might have caught it just before it was well known in the US. Before testing was available. The symptoms fit the bizarre pattern, and it was indeed awful. I was worried about my wife for a couple of days.
"What concerns me most is the speed at which the skeptical mind produces theories contrary to a perceived threat as if the threat is created by an authority."
I'm not sure how the threat was or was not created, or possibly guided, but clearly I think exploited.
Anyway, not meaning to antagonize, sorry if I did.
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Post by Sigurdur on Jun 26, 2021 3:32:50 GMT
Our political leaders ended many, many small businesses in the name of stopping a virus which was going to do what it will do, agreed. The carpet bombing campaign was the government's response to the virus. We'll never know what the consequences of not taking action to prevent the spread of this disease would be (outside of Brazil and a few other countries) because the action was taken. What concerns me most is the speed at which the skeptical mind produces theories contrary to a perceived threat as if the threat is created by an authority. I was surprised by the polarity in opinion regarding AGW once I gathered the threads as to the true capacity of nature v "CO²" as a forcing on our climate. I was equally surprised once covid broke out that it should be considered in the same way as CO² by skeptics. I've yet to see anything occur regarding covid that isn't rational, it's an interesting novel virus, quirky and potentially consequential and its behaving as far as I can tell, within known parameters with predictable results. My mother asked me a few months ago if I thought, in the UK, we were over the worst of it, I replied, the only thing we have to worry about are new variants. Here we are now, delta (Indian) variant is affecting us. Either the world's gvmts got together and agreed India should take one for the team, or the virus is following a predictable path, in this case, the more cases the more chance of mutations. This is the same for all virus, not something unique. World gvmts cooperating would be.... I won't add more to this as I have no interest in adding or antagonising further. I've spent hours disagreeing with people on the Internet, I've no wish to do that anymore, especially here. The pleasant thing about this board is we don't argue per se. We are all individuals with different perspectives. We are not afraid to "stand our ground", just as we are not afraid to say "Hey, I was wrong". There was a feller who didn't understand latent heat. He has disappeared. The level of IQ on this board is well represented with the various topics. |
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Post by acidohm on Jun 26, 2021 5:27:12 GMT
I never get antagonised Walnut so your very safe!!!
I'm just opinionated and prone to rambling 😊
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Post by walnut on Jun 26, 2021 12:16:15 GMT
The problem is, the enormous political conspiracy eclipsed the seriousness of the virus itself.
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 26, 2021 15:25:51 GMT
Covid Post-Mortem The only parts of the early Covid response that made sense to me were ... 1. Slow the rush to hospital and don't crash the system. 2. Protect the most vulnerable, which were early on determined to be the elderly and others with "complicating" conditions. WHAT WAS NOT DONE: Normally, when you have a large, potentially dangerous unknown(s), you expend much effort in identifying and quantifying the parameters. Early on ... 1. It was apparent that mortality was statistically small, and became larger with age and the presence of pre-existing conditions. 2. Early indications - speculations / immunnologist opinions were that many more people had been exposed to (acquired) Covid than were indicated by hospital cases. 3. Tiny samples suggested the obvious (at least to data people). Many (a large percent) of the individuals in several small samples showed antibodies to the virus. Many had displayed/experienced NO or MINOR symptoms. This was publicized by some immunnologists who were widely "trashed". Normally, a massive intelligence operation would be launched to quantify the threat and lay the groundwork for the response. To this day, there has not been a major operation to quantify the battlefield. Did I miss it? Early in 2020, Krogers Pharmacies was offering a cheap, simple antibody test for $25. This was quietly dropped, and the focus went to vaccine development and lockdown ... with no attempt in the interim to quantify what part of the population would actually need it. It seems that the pre-agreed answer was ... everybody. Is it surprising that "the morally compromised" and "authoritarian-inclined" jumped on the band wagon. After all, this type of response almost guaranteed large profits in this World (maybe not in the next  ). Seventeen months into "the Great Skedaddle", there still seems to be NO statistically reliable estimate of protective antibodies across the general population. Nor a systematic evaluation of cross-variant protection. In a Jack Webb, "Just the facts Mamn" World, would this not be expected? Is it surprising that a "sizeable" portion of the population believe "they have been had"? I'm just a Data Guy and can certainly make mistakes. But, in the Old West, horse thievery was a crime punishable by hanging. In Medieval Europe, the fiefdom Lords remained in charge, until the Black Death broke part of their grip. By signing the Magna Carta, they had already established the principle that they too were untrustworthy Bastards. Let the Reformation begin.  In the Show Me State, they have failed to "Show Me". |
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Post by gridley on Jun 26, 2021 16:43:52 GMT
I've been worried about a serious pandemic for decades. It is a disaster that is hard to prepare for. In late 2019 I had a high level of respect for the CDC.
So when COVID-19 reared its ugly head and the early numbers from China looked bad, I was worried. Yeah, sure, they were numbers from China - but China usually tries to minimize the problems it was having, so the smart money was on things being worse than reported. If that was the case then [Edit: fixed typo] COVID-19 was BAD.
So I was annoyed when Trump started taking what were, it seemed to me, inadequate steps, but he still got flack for "overreacting" (remember Chinese New Year in NYC?).
Then we got the Diamond Princess data and I relaxed. I figured the CDC would straighten itself out, we'd all take a deep breath, Trump would be tarred for overreacting but we'd all go back to normal.
Instead we got cloth masks (which decades of studies on multiple continents have shown either don't work or are counter productive and cause health problems), social distancing (because a virus can't jump 6'1", or go sideways, or be moved around by a building's ventilation system...), and "flatten the curve". "Oh, it'll only be a few weeks."
Turns out not only did I have more faith in the CDC than I should have, I had more faith in the US population than I should have.
What really kills me is that a real killer of a disease will come along eventually. When it does the sane people will remember the panicdemic and think "oh, sure, the sky is falling again, riiiiggghhhttt..." until it is too late... and the sheep will wear cloth masks and die anyway. Anyone who comes up with useful information will remember how those who spoke up during the panicdemic were silenced and will be less likely to bring forward information which might save lives.
I never ran out of toilet paper - heck, I never ran low. But I've run out of faith that we can fight a real disease and survive.
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Post by acidohm on Jun 26, 2021 17:32:23 GMT
I've been worried about a serious pandemic for decades. It is a disaster that is hard to prepare for. In late 2019 I had a high level of respect for the CDC. So when COVID-19 reared its ugly head and the early numbers from China looked bad, I was worried. Yeah, sure, they were numbers from China - but China usually tries to minimize the problems it was having, so the smart money was on things being worse than reported. If that was the case then [Edit: fixed typo] COVID-19 was BAD. So I was annoyed when Trump started taking what were, it seemed to me, inadequate steps, but he still got flack for "overreacting" (remember Chinese New Year in NYC?). Then we got the Diamond Princess data and I relaxed. I figured the CDC would straighten itself out, we'd all take a deep breath, Trump would be tarred for overreacting but we'd all go back to normal. Instead we got cloth masks (which decades of studies on multiple continents have shown either don't work or are counter productive and cause health problems), social distancing (because a virus can't jump 6'1", or go sideways, or be moved around by a building's ventilation system...), and "flatten the curve". "Oh, it'll only be a few weeks." Turns out not only did I have more faith in the CDC than I should have, I had more faith in the US population than I should have. What really kills me is that a real killer of a disease will come along eventually. When it does the sane people will remember the panicdemic and think "oh, sure, the sky is falling again, riiiiggghhhttt..." until it is too late... and the sheep will wear cloth masks and die anyway. Anyone who comes up with useful information will remember how those who spoke up during the panicdemic were silenced and will be less likely to bring forward information which might save lives. I never ran out of toilet paper - heck, I never ran low. But I've run out of faith that we can fight a real disease and survive. Well said Gridley. Tho regarding social distancing, measures may seem daft, but when R over a population of millions hangs around 1, it may be small differences between viral growth or regression, and lots of small measures of them tilting the tide meaningfully in our favour, are worthwhile. In addition there's the psychological effect where people may generally be more considered in their behaviour, for example ordering food deliveries rather then visit shop, or work from home. If you reduce interactions, you reduce spread, I'm not sure anyone can disagree with that, it is after us who spread virus to each other. |
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nautonnier
New Member
Glioblastoma Stage 4 - had the neurosurgery finished 3 wksradiation therapy now 3wks crossed fingers
Posts: 4
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Post by nautonnier on Jun 26, 2021 18:41:09 GMT
Let's throw a brick into the mill pond then.....
" 18-Year Old Suffers Heart Attack After Experimental Pfizer Jab, Says He Would Prefer Getting COVID-19
How many times do you hear of an 18-year old having a heart attack?
I’d be surprised if anyone has heard of such a case.
But for 18-year old Isaiah Harris, that was the reality after receiving the 2nd dose of the experimental Pfizer COVID-19 jab.
Harris is an active teenager that played football, lifted weights, and had no prior health complications.
In other words, he had no business getting this experimental jab that he has a 99.99% chance of survival.
But 'School required the vaccination' -
Like many other young experimental jab recipients, Harris was diagnosed with myocarditis.
Sadly, Harris has gone from his active lifestyle to bed rest and heart medications."
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Post by missouriboy on Jun 26, 2021 18:41:48 GMT
What seems to me to be daft, is not systematically measuring immunity (antibodies), whether acquired through exposure to the virus or through vaccination, and the effectiveness of such antibodies against virus mutations. In fairness, it seems that the UK has been doing a better job of that than the US.
In February, Imperial College warned that only 44.6 per cent of the population would be protected by the original lockdown release day of June 21. But the latest figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that eight in 10 people over the age of 16 now have antibodies to Covid.
news.yahoo.com/antibody-rates-more-50-per-135908268.html
One relatively large US study (~32000 if I remember correctly) found a small percentage of infections occurring in vaccinated people, but NO cases of re-infection in people that had antibodies acquired through having Covid. If such antibodies are long-lived (up to 10 months or so, so far), then Covid and its variants may be on their way out. Such results are politically problematic for those who prefer authoritarian measures. Just as a longer-term cooling climate may prove embarrasing to the CO2 mongers.
I am not an anti-vaxer. But such programs should be entered into with the proper intelligence. The old deadlies such as smallpox were defeated with a milder form (cow pox) that provided nearly total immunity to its more deadly cousin.
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Post by acidohm on Jun 26, 2021 19:00:18 GMT
Let's throw a brick into the mill pond then.....
" 18-Year Old Suffers Heart Attack After Experimental Pfizer Jab, Says He Would Prefer Getting COVID-19
How many times do you hear of an 18-year old having a heart attack?
I’d be surprised if anyone has heard of such a case.
But for 18-year old Isaiah Harris, that was the reality after receiving the 2nd dose of the experimental Pfizer COVID-19 jab.
Harris is an active teenager that played football, lifted weights, and had no prior health complications.
In other words, he had no business getting this experimental jab that he has a 99.99% chance of survival.
But 'School required the vaccination' -
Like many other young experimental jab recipients, Harris was diagnosed with myocarditis.
Sadly, Harris has gone from his active lifestyle to bed rest and heart medications."
But its a numbers game, you can't not vax millions of people because a few have side effects to vax. Some people die of peanuts, how do they find out, should we ban peanuts? Actually....never let that concept circulate twitter 🤣 |
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). Seventeen months into "the Great Skedaddle", there still seems to be NO statistically reliable estimate of protective antibodies across the general population. Nor a systematic evaluation of cross-variant protection. 
In the Show Me State, they have failed to "Show Me".