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Post by justme on May 21, 2023 15:31:04 GMT
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Post by code on May 21, 2023 16:15:55 GMT
I Just Arrived in Kyiv. The Ukrainian Valor Is Breathtaking. May 18, 2023 www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/opinion/ukraine-kyiv-missile-patriot.html?unlocked_article_code=219LsLaY3QHoT2Jc7Pcv68H1NGVzaOiHy0qtlUlrGcon62pH1a4RgZI3KJPD5q-UOni3UyXWQ1rC-J0qkfoituiTuSveV5w31trYHgEzhcgtuU4260-5vATJU_fhDRWu1NpMNhcTQ8ZQe1cMMEW5V6EjkJrKicHjIQyiXVMYhoHxRnkh3jqvfN0fvjrO_yY993gL18wRF0IW6JgypSHnDrc-vjKVz6qrQOMhgy6yWPL6GfAYP_vjp1OJ-mgIo_4lgDPQ_WLChSRPkjU1r152fc6FiXH78G-FH0mX9GOzpGI-bFeBCYHyRBgVBFmr699SsfwhDKLKLoR0mJCl3CX0fW3AX5RGy_A&smid=url-shareKYIV, Ukraine — This week, I was jolted awake by an air raid siren for the first time since my service in Iraq just over a decade ago. It was roughly 3 a.m. on Monday night, and I was sleeping soundly here in Ukraine’s capital...Missile and drone attacks are common in Kyiv. But this night was different. Ukrainian officials called it “exceptional.” The inbound missiles included Kinzhal hypersonic missiles, among the most vaunted weapons in the Russian arsenal. Last August, the Russian defense minister, Sergei Shoigu, said the weapons were unstoppable, “impossible” to detect or intercept. Well, they were detected and intercepted. I watched (and heard) it happen. The skies lit up over Kyiv as the Ukrainians launched air defenses, including what appeared to be American-made Patriot missiles. At the end of the exchange, Ukrainian and American officials claimed that Ukrainian air defenses intercepted all six of the hypersonic missiles launched by Russia, and in a meeting on Thursday, the Ukrainian defense minister Oleksii Reznikov specifically attributed the Kinzhal kills to Patriot missiles. A Patriot battery was damaged, but reportedly still operational.
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Post by acidohm on May 21, 2023 18:48:54 GMT
"If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined" - Pyrrhus of Epirus
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Post by acidohm on May 22, 2023 18:02:45 GMT
Things are unexpectedly interesting in Belgorod, Russia.
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Post by code on May 22, 2023 18:10:00 GMT
Things are unexpectedly interesting in Belgorod, Russia. ?
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Post by missouriboy on May 22, 2023 19:24:46 GMT
Things are unexpectedly interesting in Belgorod, Russia. Boris and Natasha do Belgorod. Saturday Night Live? Or Dead?
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Post by glennkoks on May 22, 2023 21:13:24 GMT
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Post by acidohm on May 23, 2023 4:48:12 GMT
Thing is, are hypersonic weapons a much better weapon? Or just a catchy name.
Whichever, I don't think anyone could claim they've been decisive in this conflict.
The Russian kinzhal is a bit like the T-14 tank, we know it exists....but who cares, 99% of their armoury is from the 70's at best.
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Post by gridley on May 23, 2023 10:58:21 GMT
Thing is, are hypersonic weapons a much better weapon? Or just a catchy name. Hypersonic weapons have some advantages: 1. The defender has less time to react after detecting the weapon. 2. The defender's interceptors (missiles, CIWS, whatever) have a smaller "engagement basket" in which they can successfully reach the attacking weapon. 3. The defender's interceptors may not be able to make a proper terminal attack even if they can theoretically reach the attacking weapon (imagine "leading" a bird with a shotgun only to find yourself aiming at a rocket - you're unlikely to "lead" it correctly).
They also, however, have some disadvantages: 1. The weapon's on-board guidance has less time to identify its target, and depending on sensor type may have a harder time recognizing its target. 2. All else being equal the weapon will inherently be less maneuverable.
3. All else being equal the weapon will carry a smaller payload. 4. Next-gen (NOT current state) defense systems will themselves be hypersonic or even speed of light (lasers), so your advantages are likely to fade rapidly. NOE, stealth, or deceptive approaches are highly likely to pay off better.
If you're shooting at a well developed defense system that was not set up for hypersonic weapons they are better - you'll get shots through that you otherwise wouldn't. If the defender has no defense system they aren't better - you spent more for the equivalent amount of payload on target.
Of course it really comes down to who is bigger or smarter rather than who has fancier (or often even better) weapons. Better torpedoes helped the IJN win some battles in WWII but they lost the war and it wasn't even close. If you waste your relatively scarce hypersonic weapons on targets you could have destroyed with your more plentiful conventional weapons you might as well not have developed them - in fact you would have been better off not too since you undoubtedly complicated your logistics.
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Post by acidohm on May 23, 2023 17:00:08 GMT
Thx Gridley, good perspective.
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Post by justme on May 24, 2023 21:53:15 GMT
come on .. did you see the pop .. it was't an explosion you can fit a fair amount of c4 on those drones .. the shock wave would have collapsed the roof .. and everyone knows putin is that paranoid he's never there .. it's a false flag action .. just like cancelling the marches and ceremony's .. at least they could have done a better job like the usa and twin towers .. To anyone following the events of this conflict closely that is not indoctrinated, there was never any doubt this was Ukraine. I am sure flearider and glennkoks will act shocked. www.nytimes.com/2023/05/24/us/politics/ukraine-kremlin-drone-attack.html
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Post by justme on May 24, 2023 21:57:36 GMT
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Post by Sigurdur on May 25, 2023 1:38:22 GMT
Ukraine has never been winning.
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Post by glennkoks on May 25, 2023 3:49:28 GMT
I would disagree. Every second the Russian flag is not flying over Ukraine they are winning.
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Post by justme on May 25, 2023 13:17:54 GMT
I would disagree. Every second the Russian flag is not flying over Ukraine they are winning. Ukraine could of been a neutral state similar to Austria. Both The West, Russia, and Ukraine could of all benefited. Ukraine has been transformed into a dysfunctional state in irreversible population decline. It was already in demographic decline before this conflict. They have hundreds of thousands of soldiers killed in action. Millions have left towards The West or Russia. A percentage of the population lives in Russian controlled areas. Many cities and infrastructure has been completely destroyed. Russia is winning this conflict and will control the most resource abundant areas of Ukraine. What a win. Here is Mearsheimer on how Russia may take 4 more Oblasts before the conflict ends. Remember he accurately predicting this conflict years in advance (@15:06). Douglas Macgregor has a similar view.
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